Session Start: Sun Jul 19 18:46:32 2009 Session Ident: #mfe 03[18:46] * Now talking in #mfe Session Close: Sun Jul 19 18:47:03 2009 Session Start: Mon Jul 20 17:53:57 2009 Session Ident: #mfe 03[17:53] * Now talking in #mfe 02[17:54] * nickpsbd (Mibbit@mib-82FC29E2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:13] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[18:15] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[18:16] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:17] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [18:17] hello? 02[18:19] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Session Close: Mon Jul 20 18:28:48 2009 Session Start: Mon Jul 20 18:28:48 2009 Session Ident: #mfe 02[18:28] * Disconnected 02[18:28] * Attempting to rejoin channel #mfe 03[18:28] * Rejoined channel #mfe 02[18:29] * anna (Mibbit@1DD10B09.A10E0E46.8226D059.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:30] * _Jeremy (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 03[18:31] * ayleynz (Mibbit@93443ED9.21A8229D.B0E56423.IP) has joined #mfe 02[18:32] * ayleynz (Mibbit@93443ED9.21A8229D.B0E56423.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:35] * Wheels (Mibbit@mib-E12E59FA.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[18:38] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[18:39] * R2-1 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe [18:40] the streams are now live, please refresh your web page 02[18:40] * _Jeremy (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:41] * _Jeremy (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 03[18:41] * peebee (Mibbit@mib-68AC869D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[18:42] * faceme (Mibbit@mib-1D01C26A.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[18:42] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:43] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[18:44] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[18:44] * faceme (Mibbit@mib-1D01C26A.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:44] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) has joined #mfe 03[18:45] * molly_09 (Mibbit@mib-1A7FB62C.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [18:45] whoop, IRC... [18:46] IRC? 03[18:46] * BK (Mibbit@824F504F.20AABB66.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe 03[18:46] * avy (Mibbit@mib-51DC5739.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[18:47] * rimu (rimu@mib-FAB36F7E.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [18:48] is there a command to save out a log file or is it a copy and paste job? [18:48] oh, internet relay chat.. this type of chat before MSN messenger and gmail chat and facebook chat came along... 03[18:48] * rimu is now known as Rimu 02[18:48] * peebee (Mibbit@mib-68AC869D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:48] * Pete (Mibbit@mib-EB92E323.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[18:49] * Pete (Mibbit@mib-EB92E323.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[18:50] * BK (Mibbit@824F504F.20AABB66.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:50] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[18:50] * monty (Mibbit@mib-443234D2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[18:50] * Tony (Mibbit@mib-5B3DAC9D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [18:51] could've at least played NZ music 02[18:51] * monty (Mibbit@mib-443234D2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:51] * banana_man (Mibbit@mib-F077C0C.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe [18:51] 4Is this in vlc HD 02[18:52] * Tony (Mibbit@mib-5B3DAC9D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[18:52] * banana_man (Mibbit@mib-F077C0C.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[18:52] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:53] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[18:53] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[18:54] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [18:56] 2020 emission target... 01[18:57] no - there's not a VLC HD stream [18:57] vlc ? 03[18:58] * Jesse (Mibbit@mib-252E9E80.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[18:58] * MEK (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #mfe 02[18:58] * Jesse (Mibbit@mib-252E9E80.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [18:59] MEKinTaipei [18:59] MEK 03[18:59] * MEK is now known as Guest60715 03[18:59] * chrisb (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:03] * chrisb (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:03] * Arran (Mibbit@mib-B115A22C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:03] * Hayden (Mibbit@mib-24582D6E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:04] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:04] hello 02[19:05] * Hayden (Mibbit@mib-24582D6E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:05] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:05] hello 02[19:06] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:07] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:08] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:08] * Rimu is now known as cowbell 03[19:08] * connect (Mibbit@mib-D1F41005.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:09] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:09] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:09] * connect (Mibbit@mib-D1F41005.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:10] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:10] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:11] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:13] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:13] * aten (Mibbit@mib-38D6F35E.dynamic.ubs.tasman.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:13] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:13] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:13] sound is breaking up [19:14] ya 03[19:15] * joe_123 (Mibbit@mib-233BC07E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:15] yes-getting worse? 02[19:15] * joe_123 (Mibbit@mib-233BC07E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:15] ya 03[19:15] * seaview (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:15] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:16] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:17] * aten (Mibbit@mib-38D6F35E.dynamic.ubs.tasman.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:17] * Wheels (Mibbit@mib-E12E59FA.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:18] * BD123 (Mibbit@mib-D0F8E953.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:18] * Wheels (Mibbit@mib-E12E59FA.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:18] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:18] * Wheels (Mibbit@mib-E12E59FA.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:18] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:18] Just cleaned the CD. We're almost ready to roll [19:19] much better now [19:19] awesome 03[19:19] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:19] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:20] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:20] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:20] * Tim is now known as Guest19003 03[19:20] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:21] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:21] * Guest19003 (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:21] * aten (Mibbit@mib-38D6F35E.dynamic.ubs.tasman.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:21] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:21] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:21] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:21] * Bbb (Mibbit@mib-D117F6FD.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:21] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:22] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:22] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-42DAE4BA.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:22] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:22] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:22] * rob (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:22] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:22] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:22] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-42DAE4BA.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:22] * rob (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:23] * liz (Mibbit@mib-3E47E09C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:23] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:23] * Tim is now known as Guest62440 02[19:23] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:23] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe 02[19:23] * liz (Mibbit@mib-3E47E09C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:23] * Guest62440 (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:24] how much damage would runaway climate change do to the economy? [19:24] Should there be music? [19:24] music's a placeholder i think 03[19:24] * miffle (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:25] 16% of our emissions are from Ag nitrous oxide which can be reduced today with nitrification inhibitors - could we halve these emissions with this measure & so result in an 8% reduction just like that?! AND the methane ag emissions are just from ruminents - not from chickens, pigs, crops or horticulture or cropping. 03[19:25] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:25] * Cantabrian (Mibbit@FA155DAC.3A53688F.14791421.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:25] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:25] * Bbb (Mibbit@mib-D117F6FD.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:25] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:25] * RugbyMother (Mibbit@mib-6068BE96.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:25] * TimHewitt (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:25] anyone managed to play the video stream on linux? 02[19:25] * RugbyMother (Mibbit@mib-6068BE96.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:26] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:26] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:27] Anyone brave enough to use their real names? 03[19:27] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:27] * caraka (Mibbit@mib-4BCC4843.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:28] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:28] * Snodgrass (Mibbit@mib-A5A1100C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:28] * glenorchy (Mibbit@6F400475.CA71BEB4.4A598073.IP) has joined #mfe [19:28] my real name ah Borat 03[19:28] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe [19:28] <_Jeremy> Try M-Player for Linux 03[19:28] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:28] * caraka (Mibbit@mib-4BCC4843.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:28] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:29] * BD123 (Mibbit@mib-D0F8E953.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:29] * _Jeremy (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:29] * pato (Mibbit@mib-B99BDBB3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:29] * sharpblade (Mibbit@mib-4632B1A2.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:29] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:29] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:29] i bet they intentionally chose really annoying music for the intro :) 02[19:29] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:29] * R2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:29] * JustinProuse (Mibbit@6554A276.438308B.2A3501EF.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:29] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:29] * pato (Mibbit@mib-B99BDBB3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:29] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe [19:29] i almost did, haha [19:29] the man can prolly trace it all anyway.. 02[19:30] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:30] * Guest60715 (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:30] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * SimoTourism (Mibbit@mib-A0D8D7DA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:30] * sharpblade (Mibbit@mib-4632B1A2.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:30] * caraka (Mibbit@mib-4BCC4843.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * MEKinTaipei (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * Jonathan (Mibbit@mib-A826809F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * sharpblade (Mibbit@mib-4632B1A2.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:30] * summit (Mibbit@mib-BD743E5A.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:31] * slowmotion (Mibbit@F6E6AC2.17CC354B.150D6BD6.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:31] * Don (Mibbit@8F03D815.8401C386.B11FEB4A.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:31] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:31] * summit (Mibbit@mib-BD743E5A.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:31] * Don (Mibbit@8F03D815.8401C386.B11FEB4A.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:31] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:31] * rich101 (Mibbit@mib-472EB8B2.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:31] * phraed (Mibbit@mib-AB78105D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:31] * JustinProuse (Mibbit@6554A276.438308B.2A3501EF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:31] no audio [19:31] hmm. music stopped, but I can't hear the guy talking 03[19:31] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:32] o hai nick smith! [19:32] color off [19:32] is it just my colours that are wrong? 02[19:32] * phraed (Mibbit@mib-AB78105D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:32] they're really blue [19:32] haha [19:32] same 03[19:32] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:32] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:32] cant hear [19:32] yep, colours all wrong. and i've got no sound [19:32] very nats :-) 02[19:32] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:32] * lizandscott (Mibbit@mib-3E47E09C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:32] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@DA0CD3EF.A44711F7.4A598073.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:32] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:32] stop colin 02[19:32] * lizandscott (Mibbit@mib-3E47E09C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: lizandscott) 03[19:32] * East_Coast (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:32] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe 03[19:32] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:32] hmm yeah we really need that sound, aye... [19:33] No sound? 03[19:33] * jarbury (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:33] national party colour?Hmmm [19:33] yes no sound 03[19:33] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-BBC13CF6.ubs.maxnet.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:33] * skytower (Mibbit@mib-276B152C.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:33] * joanna (Mibbit@mib-DDFF75A8.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:33] i will try a browser restart. who knows, worth a shot [19:33] no sound [19:33] is there a reason why there's no sound? 03[19:33] * jh (Mibbit@mib-D3C7D41A.dynamic.dsl.kinect.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:33] can some one lip read? 03[19:33] * Hugh (Mibbit@3F8AB794.B4DD7D3E.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:33] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:33] * emilyd (Mibbit@mib-FC06B93B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:33] anyone got sound? [19:33] quick fix underway, looks like [19:33] crikey what did Nick Smith have for lunch? his face is BLUE 03[19:33] * renegade (Mibbit@mib-5A117591.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:33] * Don (Mibbit@8F03D815.8401C386.B11FEB4A.IP) has joined #mfe [19:33] Body launguage looks negative? 02[19:34] * molly_09 (Mibbit@mib-1A7FB62C.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:34] * phraed (Mibbit@mib-AB78105D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:34] * jh (Mibbit@mib-D3C7D41A.dynamic.dsl.kinect.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:34] music again? 02[19:34] * Don (Mibbit@8F03D815.8401C386.B11FEB4A.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:34] yes [19:34] ya 02[19:34] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:34] yup [19:34] yep [19:34] oh i thought it was just because I restarted my browser! 03[19:34] * Matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:34] * emilyd (Mibbit@mib-FC06B93B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:34] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:34] * puss (Mibbit@mib-8BB7AA5D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:34] at least i have music now :) 02[19:34] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:34] * Matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:34] nope, music back and colours still wrong 03[19:34] * emilyd (Mibbit@mib-FC06B93B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:34] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-BBC13CF6.ubs.maxnet.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:34] this music is pretty um... 03[19:34] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe 03[19:34] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:35] I can't hear a thing, who's problem is that? [19:35] yeah... [19:35] i had music but no audio earlier jarbury 03[19:35] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:35] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:35] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: jerry) [19:35] No video or audio? 03[19:35] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:35] We will begin again from the top once the technical issues are fixed 03[19:35] * kimmy (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:35] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:35] i have both audio and video but i had to click that link "watch in pp-up player" [19:35] any idea of the timeframe? [19:35] pop* 02[19:35] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:36] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:36] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:36] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:36] * dave_ven30 (Mibbit@mib-5F69CB53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:36] * Hugh (Mibbit@3F8AB794.B4DD7D3E.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:36] * Tram_Trust_org_NZ (Mibbit@mib-DC5B7C23.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:36] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:36] technical issues..... hmmm... how surprising 03[19:36] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:36] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:36] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:36] i'm sure there are some stressed geeks feverishly thrashing with cables as we type.. :) 02[19:36] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:36] If I'm not mistaken joanna, this artist just released an album at Te Papa! [19:36] now music / no video 03[19:36] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe [19:36] how come Nick Smith looked so blue? [19:37] is everyone having to see the world through a "blue lense" these days ;) [19:37] Blue Greens :-0 03[19:37] * Matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:37] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-42DAE4BA.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:37] * choose_one11 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:37] i only have a still image ... are people seeing more then that...? [19:37] lol [19:37] 4What time will discussion really come on air [19:37] @caraka link it? 03[19:37] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:37] * butterfly (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:37] still image of presentation [19:37] what';s the story [19:37] i think the image is what everyone's getting - with info and that's it 03[19:37] * gsg (Mibbit@mib-79011974.paradise.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:37] and some music [19:37] Yep [19:37] peaceful music I must say [19:37] sorry wombleton? [19:37] yes me too [19:37] Ministry logo is maroon [19:38] ok great thanks jarbury [19:38] pretty funky world music for MfE... [19:38] @caraka you said they'd release an album, you have link? or was the teh funnies? 03[19:38] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:38] True music and text, same with the popup (realplayer) [19:38] looks like they are having technical difficulties [19:38] seems appropriate music.... 03[19:38] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:38] yep and the colours are still wrong [19:38] in a way the delay is good, more people arriving. [19:38] im not getting anything [19:38] i wonder if their this late to get things done in parliament... would explain a lot 03[19:38] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:39] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: jerry) [19:39] are they waiting for everybody to get bored 03[19:39] * timoti (Mibbit@mib-BBC13CF6.ubs.maxnet.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:39] I wonder what music the Ministry of Transport would have playing? "The Cars" ;) 03[19:39] * Eco (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:39] * kate (Mibbit@mib-1CC246F4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:39] * choose_one11 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:39] * timoti (Mibbit@mib-BBC13CF6.ubs.maxnet.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:39] nope parliament is notoriously ontime [19:39] time to make a cup of tea 03[19:39] * Bruno changes topic to 'technical problem' [19:39] The sea is red -global warming? algal bloom? [19:39] Ah, yes, just looking up the artist on my ipod, but I'm not totaly convinced it's him... [19:39] jarbury Road To Nowhere, surely 03[19:39] * choose_one12 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:39] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe [19:39] true true wombleton 02[19:39] * kate (Mibbit@mib-1CC246F4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:39] 4Is there anyone on line who is actually incharge of the broadcast? [19:39] Anyone knows why they don't use the Parliament Freeview Chanel? [19:39] i kinda like the ability to chat [19:39] mine worked for a minute showing the panel 03[19:40] * kate (Mibbit@mib-1CC246F4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:40] it would be so much easier to watch this on sky tv [19:40] MFE is putting it on, not parliament [19:40] ...although it's at parliament 02[19:40] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:40] Lorenzo Buhne? (artist?) anyone at MfE can confirm? [19:40] well all I want to say is go 40% by 2020 [19:40] We've got technical issues, we are currently working to fix the issue and will start from the top shortly [19:40] anyone read David Farrar's hysterical post on Kiwiblog earlier? what a laugh - he completely didn't understand the difference between cross emissions and net emissions 03[19:40] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:40] Freeview's not interactive is it? 03[19:40] * jh (Mibbit@mib-D3C7D41A.dynamic.dsl.kinect.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:40] thanks R2-04 02[19:40] * East_Coast (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:40] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe [19:40] do we need to log back in perhaps? 02[19:40] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:41] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:41] * kate is now known as Guest46646 03[19:41] * me (Mibbit@mib-23034066.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:41] so.... how can we bring down transport sector emissions? 02[19:41] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:41] * East (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:41] * me (Mibbit@mib-23034066.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:41] @wombleton Lorenzo Buhne? (artist?) anyone at MfE can confirm? [19:41] evs 03[19:41] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:41] * Guest46646 (Mibbit@mib-1CC246F4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:41] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:41] FreeView is not interactive but the feed would entertain us now... [19:41] stay at home! 02[19:41] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@DA0CD3EF.A44711F7.4A598073.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:41] Jarbury, doyou have a weblink to somewhere explaining the difference? Any other blog commentary? 02[19:41] * joanna (Mibbit@mib-DDFF75A8.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:41] jarbury - first by vehicle fuel efficiency standards - the easy start [19:41] is anything happening yet, all i get is logos and stuff [19:41] We need to put freight onto rail, pref electric rail [19:41] lawl the nasty music is baaaack 02[19:41] * SimoTourism (Mibbit@mib-A0D8D7DA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:42] MEK - basically gross emissions are what we pump out [19:42] and FreeView is wasting bandwidth with a still picture for 95% of the time... 03[19:42] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe 02[19:42] * emilyd (Mibbit@mib-FC06B93B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:42] Wait for the word from on the video from the R2 when fixed [19:42] net emissions are gross emissions minus what we can "suck up" through planting trees [19:42] yes aten 03[19:42] * SimoTourism (Mibbit@mib-A0D8D7DA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:42] * MatD (Mibbit@C945CB33.6896147A.7955F4B7.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:42] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:42] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:42] * qwerty (Mibbit@mib-5B999F4B.vodafone.com.au) has joined #mfe 03[19:42] * kenny (Mibbit@mib-608B91F9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:42] yes matt, but they own the channel! soon they will do re-runs of parliament! [19:42] so we could make a 40% net reduction by reducing gross emissions by say 10% but increasing the amount of CO2 we "suck up" by 30% 03[19:42] * too-true-for-you (Mibbit@mib-557BB8FC.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:43] not that impossible after all really 03[19:43] * yoga (Mibbit@mib-8997F4F1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:43] you are forgetting about soil but the science hasn't got there yet! [19:43] that's absurd 03[19:43] * choose_a (Mibbit@mib-521E68F2.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:43] While you wait bookmark perhaps www.oneclimate.org.nz [19:43] caraka : yes fuel efficiency standards would be a start [19:43] not too far fetched jarbury. There is a lot to say for forestry 02[19:43] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-42DAE4BA.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:43] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:43] * kimmy (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:43] * kenny is now known as Guest33960 [19:43] We need to have a moratorium on roadbuilding until we have low CO2 vehicles to use it [19:44] good ideas [19:44] the soil is there glenorchy, but NZ failed to opt in for kyoto 02[19:44] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:44] not taking money from sustainable transport sectors and plouging all of it into building more state highways would also be a good idea [19:44] the problem with new forests is that the CC's will be sold so NZ inc misses out! 02[19:44] * choose_one12 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:44] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:44] My Question, is why are we so far behind the pacific island targets? [19:44] aten, yes good idea. the idea that reducing congestion reduces CO2 is a myth. 02[19:44] * too-true-for-you (Mibbit@mib-557BB8FC.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:44] lets waste more paper to encourage forest planting! [19:44] make our cities cycle and walking friendly [19:44] not if it's on crown land that is currently waste land, of which there is lots 02[19:44] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:45] * jerry (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:45] * qwerty (Mibbit@mib-5B999F4B.vodafone.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:45] it may be true on a per vehicle per kilometre basis, but reducing congestion can just encourage people to drive further and more often [19:45] bury paper in land fills 03[19:45] * phil (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:45] crown land planting sounds good. 03[19:45] * bellbird (Mibbit@mib-56FAF282.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:45] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:45] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:45] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:45] * john (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe [19:45] what about setting road tolls to discourage driving ? [19:46] cheap too glenorchy 03[19:46] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe [19:46] 4Would have loved to hear it but guess it will be another time in cyber space. . I really wanted to hear John Key not all you guys. No offense [19:46] shameless plug for my blog, the Auckland Transport Blog, where I discuss many of these issues: www.transportblog.co.nz 02[19:46] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:46] and use money from tolls to pay for electric cars [19:46] Trans Tasman operability issues are important for companies that trade either way 02[19:46] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:46] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:46] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:46] Govt aim for emissions to peak at 450ppm CO2e, what are are at now? Heard 385 CO2 and 435 CO2equivalent [19:46] Bruno - yes congestion charging is an idea. though we need better public transport alternatives before we go down that path I think [19:46] http://www.oneclimate.org.nz/ looks quite good thanks plenty of info - links to other initiatives [19:46] While you wait www.signon.org.nz [19:46] still blue.. ghar 02[19:46] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:46] but back [19:46] have sound, but still BLUE [19:47] still blue [19:47] look like the guy on X-men 02[19:47] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:47] * john (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:47] yay 03[19:47] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:47] flip colour! 03[19:47] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:47] the blue men speak! [19:47] smurfs 02[19:47] * bellbird (Mibbit@mib-56FAF282.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:47] :) 02[19:47] * butterfly (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:47] * choose_a (Mibbit@mib-521E68F2.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:47] * East (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:47] irony at work 02[19:47] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:47] I wonder if Nick Smith ever talks to Steven Joyce about the effects on CO2 emissions of his transport policies? 03[19:47] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:47] any skeptics on the panel? or is the science settled? 03[19:47] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:47] working now, great! 02[19:48] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:48] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:48] * Nebucadnezzar (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:48] * Bruno changes topic to ' -40% by 2020' 03[19:48] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:48] * vegestoc (Mibbit@mib-DFCB6D39.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:48] .n.smith@ministers.govt.nz 03[19:48] * East_blind-deaf (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:48] * slowmotion (Mibbit@F6E6AC2.17CC354B.150D6BD6.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:48] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:48] * Carl (Mibbit@92A48356.A0871378.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:48] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:48] * Nebucadnezzar (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:48] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:48] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:48] * Carl (Mibbit@92A48356.A0871378.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:49] * East_blind-deaf (Mibbit@mib-D65900F8.fire.org.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:49] * vegestoc (Mibbit@mib-DFCB6D39.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:49] * phil (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:49] peteremcc not that kind of panel [19:49] Question: Why do the minister's figures break down energy by sector, but agriculture by gasses? Isn't this misleading? [19:49] if we buy credit overseas, money flows outside our country, no ? 03[19:49] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:49] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:50] Forestry sounds good 02[19:50] * Jonathan (Mibbit@mib-A826809F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:50] Why are we using geothermal in a steady state situation instead of peaking / cover for renewables - let pressure build up when plenty of renewables, but run it hard, run pressure down when renewable shortage [19:50] what kind of panel is it then frank? [19:50] caraka what do you mean? 03[19:50] * big (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:50] Question: Please explain the difference between net emissions and gross emissions 02[19:50] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:50] "little country in a big pool" - shouldn't we be leaders? 03[19:50] * Leila (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:50] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:50] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:50] geotherm doesn't work that way - it's natural baseload... 03[19:50] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:50] * nicky (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:50] * bev (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:50] we should definately be leaders but we need all the facts first [19:50] Please differentiate questions by starting with 'Question:' 02[19:50] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:51] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe [19:51] Question: "little country in a big pool" - shouldn't we be leaders? [19:51] Question: what effect would *runaway* climate change have on our economy [19:51] Question: what do you think of Steven Joyce's 1960s transportation policies and how is the government going to reduce transport sector emissions when it's throwing money like crazy at motorways and taking it away from everywhere else (including public transport)? 02[19:51] * yoga (Mibbit@mib-8997F4F1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:51] Being leaders is going to come at a huge cost because of the methane emissions from agriculture in particular. [19:51] geothermal isn't used that way at moment, but why not change the way we use it 03[19:51] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:51] Quesiton: If cutting down forests affects our emissions profile so much, how about *we don't* cut down the forests? [19:52] Question : If we buy carbon credits overseas, our money will leave NZ. Why don't we spend the money in NZ, double as a stimulus ? [19:52] 40 by 2020 02[19:52] * MEKinTaipei (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:52] * Leila (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:52] * Katerina (Mibbit@mib-8B3CC16C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:52] frame freeze 02[19:52] * avy (Mibbit@mib-51DC5739.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:52] we could if we are willing to plant trees 02[19:53] * PaulKennett (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:53] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:53] * MEKinTaipei (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #mfe [19:53] I'm going to switch to a lower-res video stream 03[19:53] * yeahyeahyeah (Mibbit@mib-557BB8FC.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:53] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:53] take some of the load off their connection [19:53] Question: is this meant to be a debate or are all the panel members on the same side? [19:53] Hon Minister - In the briefing you received when you started the job there were three figures that were presented to you. 1. Green House Gases, CO2 and SO2. Why is the consultation document only showing SO2. Are we not worse in NO2 and GHG at #5 globally? 02[19:53] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:53] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:53] * MEKinTaipei (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:53] aten - not efficient use of the resource. it's naturally baseload. To change it is inefficient. 02[19:53] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:53] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:53] bee: in science, you never have *all* the facts 03[19:53] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:54] I'm on 128kbs and while the pics are not great, I can hear it fine. [19:54] bee not a debate, a consultation - your questions, their responses 03[19:54] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:54] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-D1D0C300.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:54] * Eco (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:54] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:54] * big (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:54] * gsg (Mibbit@mib-79011974.paradise.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:54] mine keeps freezing darn it 03[19:54] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:54] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:54] cowbell: which is why your arguments can be used to suggest we spend billions on building missiles to protect against aliens or asteroids too [19:54] me too 02[19:54] * miffle (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:54] uhhh... it just froze [19:54] true cowbell, but differentiating between scaremongering, pr, science and ideals can be difficult, especially when different parties have vested interests in it going one way or another 02[19:54] * bev (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:55] * nicky (Mibbit@D27C5E60.38F8555.5E98C23B.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:55] thanks nzfrank 03[19:55] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:55] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:55] * yeahyeahyeah (Mibbit@mib-557BB8FC.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:55] * seaview (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:55] COLOUR yay [19:55] yay, colour! [19:55] who would have a vested interest in climate change being REAL if it wasn't? [19:55] yay colour 03[19:55] * lucas (Mibbit@mib-49447FDA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:55] Question: Could the minister please explain the unique issues relating to Maori? 02[19:55] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:55] Mines OK now through slow broadband [19:55] picture frozen, looked as though it would be a long night. farewell and 40% by 2020 02[19:55] * lucas (Mibbit@mib-49447FDA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:55] * renegade (Mibbit@mib-5A117591.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:55] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:55] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:56] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:56] * jarbury2 (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:56] * Matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:56] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-D1D0C300.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:56] 128kps goes well 03[19:56] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:56] hmmm [19:56] jarbury, more vested interests going the other way, but it will affect the different colourings of the truth. [19:56] Question: how conservative is the ipccc report? [19:56] *truth* [19:56] Question: On what date do you plan to announce the 2020 target? 03[19:56] * matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:56] * ruby (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:56] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[19:57] * R2-1 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:57] * dave_ven30 (Mibbit@mib-5F69CB53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:57] * melly_nelly (Mibbit@mib-4CF028E3.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[19:57] * skytower (Mibbit@mib-276B152C.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:57] * commerce (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:57] locked out 02[19:57] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:57] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:57] * harry (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:57] * choose_one (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:57] * Guest2009 (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mfe 02[19:57] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:57] Question: So we're a small player, which countries are we partnering with to achieve targets which scientists suggest we should meet i.e. 40% by 2020 02[19:57] * R2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:57] * harry (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:57] * r2-11 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * Hogg (Mibbit@mib-8657E7AF.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * Kris (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:57] * jarbury1 (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:57] doesn't the IPCC say we need to cut a lot of carbon emissions ? [19:58] anyone's video working? 03[19:58] * r2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:58] * benji (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:58] wow colour 03[19:58] * dave_ven30 (Mibbit@mib-5F69CB53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:58] no [19:58] and it froze [19:58] yup [19:58] i should have just gone down to parliament to watch [19:58] video working on 128kbps [19:58] 40% by 2020 is necessary so lets get on with how we can do it! [19:58] yes 128 is working well 02[19:58] * jarbury1 (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * Hogg (Mibbit@mib-8657E7AF.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * r2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:58] working ok on 128 03[19:58] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) has joined #mfe 03[19:58] * nz26 (Mibbit@mib-AC11C1A5.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[19:58] * Hogg (Mibbit@mib-8657E7AF.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:58] * benji (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:58] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:58] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * jarbury2 (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:58] * jarbury (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:58] * Kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:58] hey people [19:58] n- freezing now on 128 [19:58] back on low bandwidth 03[19:58] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:58] * nz26 (Mibbit@mib-AC11C1A5.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:58] 56 is fine although very low quality 02[19:58] * Hogg (Mibbit@mib-8657E7AF.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:58] * r2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe [19:58] Small (ie NZ) equals 0.2% of global emissions 02[19:58] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [19:58] it's all about the audio anyway [19:58] working on 128 03[19:58] * go (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:58] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #mfe [19:59] Wrong Stuart. You are quoting old science! [19:59] "possible" impacts "could" be < i'd prefer a bit more certainty than that before you spend billions of my taxes please! [19:59] Yes let's aim for 40% cuts by 2020 so that the way we live and the way we run our economy is in line with other countries 02[19:59] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:59] * go (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[19:59] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[19:59] * jfg (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [19:59] Pleae switch to the 128 feed, its working well [19:59] glenorchy, 0.2% in which report? I keep seeing inconsistent numbers 03[19:59] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [19:59] melly_nelly: other countries like in africa? 03[19:59] * joshua_arbury (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[19:59] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[19:59] * Kris (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:00] so net emissions is even with 1990 02[20:00] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:00] that's good news 03[20:00] * chrismoore (Mibbit@FD5DB384.25463FBC.E104E1C0.IP) has joined #mfe [20:00] Even the USA is is only minor - only 20% - we've all got to be in on this. What we need is a global percapita emissions level 02[20:00] * jfg (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:00] bee, i think its 0.02% 03[20:00] * kevin (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:00] * r2-11 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:00] * surfer (Mibbit@DA0CD3EF.A44711F7.4A598073.IP) has joined #mfe [20:00] oops...128k video stopped 03[20:00] * gus (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[20:00] * Kris (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:00] * Kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:00] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:00] * r2-11 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) has joined #mfe 02[20:00] * puss (Mibbit@mib-8BB7AA5D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:00] if we had an ETS then there would be much more of an incentive to plant more trees 03[20:00] * kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:00] bruno nope - could be your ISP 02[20:00] * kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: kes) [20:00] Countries we rely on for trade and tourism [20:00] Bee - in the MfE consultation document and other sources 03[20:00] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:00] cheers. with tree planting, who measures what counts as tree planting for the 2020 effort? [20:00] 128 working here [20:01] gah all the easy questions are being chosen :) [20:01] 128 working here [20:01] ugly, but working [20:01] And Africa is not a country, please be specific 03[20:01] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:01] * kevin is now known as Guest15247 [20:01] working now 03[20:01] * kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:01] Trees deliver more than just time - we can harvest "Kyoto" trees as long as we replant them - so its creating a resource we can use! [20:01] they're talking about Russia now, right ? [20:01] Satellite data 02[20:01] * Guest15247 (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:01] Question: what are you going to do to reduce transport emissions? 02[20:01] * ruby (Mibbit@mib-AAA84899.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:01] * pinky (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:01] * TimHewitt (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:02] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:02] Colin' comment on scrub -if there was tree vegetation on that land in the last 50 yrs it doesn't count under Kyoto. 03[20:02] * adhd (Mibbit@mib-D0F8E953.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:02] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:02] question: where will cuts FIRST be made and how will they be introduced? [20:02] leading the world at last!!! 03[20:02] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:02] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 03[20:02] * kevin (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:02] * adamsmith1922 (Mibbit@mib-48D27E4C.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:02] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:02] * Tim (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:02] * slowmotion (Mibbit@F6E6AC2.17CC354B.150D6BD6.IP) has joined #mfe 02[20:02] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:02] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:02] * pinky is now known as Guest18864 03[20:02] * TimHewitt (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:02] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:03] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:03] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:03] * adhd (Mibbit@mib-D0F8E953.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:03] * kevin is now known as Guest46467 [20:03] WE need to lead the world and abandon Kyoto and start with a clean sheet of paper for our own emissions minimisation scheme 03[20:03] * ghj (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:03] * gus (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:03] Question: Wouldn't dealing with the impact of climate change be cheaper than reducing emmissions (including direct costs and opportunity costs of growth). 03[20:03] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 03[20:03] * turquoise (Mibbit@mib-A80D3AAB.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:03] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:04] haha peter, no [20:04] Question: What do you believe New Zealand can do at home, relistically? 02[20:04] * ghj (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:04] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:04] * kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:04] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: paulyoung) [20:04] that USA legislation is very very important 03[20:04] * folk (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:04] MatD: could we reduce our petrol emissions ? [20:04] cowbell, care to provide a bit more detail in your answer? or should we just assume you're right? 02[20:04] * TimHewitt (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:05] Stop eating ruminent meat would be a good start for NZers. 03[20:05] * kes (Mibbit@mib-D6A71B1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[20:05] * lk (Mibbit@mib-58B53F9F.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:05] sure, I'll hunt down a link 03[20:05] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) has joined #mfe 02[20:05] * Arran (Mibbit@mib-B115A22C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:05] Id like to see what he believes we can do 03[20:05] * TimHewitt (Mibbit@mib-77F02593.callplus.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:05] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[20:05] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:05] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:05] i agree with you 02[20:05] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:05] aten eating isn't the issue with meat, export is - and without ag export there's no economy 03[20:06] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:06] Even the infometrics guy says it's dearer to adapt than to mitigate, petermcc 02[20:06] * rhh (Mibbit@74FDD87A.D2614B4E.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:06] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:06] * slowmotion (Mibbit@F6E6AC2.17CC354B.150D6BD6.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:06] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:07] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:07] If we want/need to keep an agricultural nation, then I believe we need to pay even MORE focus to cutting emissions from transport and energy (etc) [20:07] But a total mitigation policy achieves a net nothing - just buying a "Get out of jail free card" 03[20:07] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:07] Scotland is targeting over 40% (I think its 42%) 02[20:07] * rich101 (Mibbit@mib-472EB8B2.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:07] germany amd scotland are! [20:07] you don't NEED to reduce gross emissions by 40% [20:07] what matters are net emissions [20:07] peter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Review#Summary_of_the_Review.27s_main_conclusions [20:08] so we should spend a cheque off shore! 03[20:08] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) has joined #mfe [20:08] when spend a cheque offshore ? [20:08] that was my question to the Minister [20:08] Germany and Scotland are both offering 40% and 42% respectively! [20:08] Tim, because we're above 1990 levels, our 40% is actually 60% of our current emmissions. Scotland's 42% is hardly anything because they're already lower. [20:08] why not spend the money in NZ ? [20:09] Question: Your thoughts on the implications of The Stern Review (2006)? [20:09] Peter, on NET emissions we are even with 1990 though [20:09] $40 spend offshore is gone 02[20:09] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:09] $40 spent domestically creates jobs [20:09] No petermcc -- our current kyoto account is in balance 03[20:09] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@mib-AE5B44D1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:09] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:09] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@mib-AE5B44D1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:09] so how much should we do onshore? [20:09] True Bruno - so why are we spending stimulus on roads? [20:09] why don't we do everything on shore ? [20:09] Question: what are the economic effects of a 4C rise in temperatures? How does that compare with the economic cost of reducing NET emissions by 40%? [20:09] 2/3 onshore and 1/3 offshore [20:09] surely there are existing technologies we could use - public transport anyone? 03[20:10] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:10] Question to Adolph: He is quoted as saying that paying for petrol emissions would add $1.20 per litre . How is 2.62kg/litre emission equate to $1.20? By my calcs, incl GST it is around 12c at $40/tonne for CO2. [20:10] caraka, shame greenpeace are talking about net then aye? [20:10] Caraka : don't spend on roads [20:10] Question: Isn't $3000 per capita a small price to pay to stabilise the climate? [20:10] arg, sorry gross! 03[20:10] * Lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:10] no they are not, petemcc [20:10] As a New Zealand citizen I just want to support the call to reduce carbon emissions as proposed. 02[20:10] * lk (Mibbit@mib-58B53F9F.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:10] caraka : we can spend on electricity, get rid of all the gas generators 03[20:10] * rainman (Mibbit@mib-1C12AD78.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:11] Question: Have you considered the implications (not finically) of these emmissions? I.e to the environment, new zealands clean green image would be lost [20:11] greenpeace are talking about net 40% 02[20:11] * Lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:11] * choose_one332 (Mibbit@mib-F1905200.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:11] * rich101 (Mibbit@mib-472EB8B2.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:11] Oops my sound & pics just died! Anyone else? [20:11] back again! 03[20:11] * lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:11] We don't need to get rid of all the gas Bruno - the 90% renewable target was sensible economically [20:11] i've been OK [20:11] did the facilitator just quote the cadbury whitakers debate? [20:11] cfc 02[20:11] * choose_one332 (Mibbit@mib-F1905200.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:11] * lk (Mibbit@mib-58B53F9F.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:11] caraka : I agree...90% would be world leading 03[20:12] * skytower (Mibbit@mib-276B152C.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:12] we are already 70% 02[20:12] * rainman (Mibbit@mib-1C12AD78.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:12] YES, one of miiiine 03[20:12] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) has joined #mfe [20:12] renewable electricity - hydro, wind, geotherm [20:12] Bruno: not in a dry year 03[20:12] * rainman (Mibbit@mib-1C12AD78.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:12] what is the cost of a 40% reduction in NET emissions? How does that compare to the economic cost of doing nothing and getting nailed by climate change in the longer run? or the economic effect of being nailed by tarriffs outlined in the US legislation? [20:12] Scotland 42%, Germany 40% [20:13] 18864: yes, not on a dry year, i take that...but on a non-dry year, we should be able to use a lot of renewables [20:13] Question: People are willing to do what it takes to ensure their survival, their children's, and their planet's. Hardship is better than extinction. What will it take to communicate this to you? [20:13] skytower, are those "gross" or "net"? [20:13] skytower but starting from where? 02[20:13] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:13] * choose_max (Mibbit@mib-1DB34EC5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:13] * choose_max (Mibbit@mib-1DB34EC5.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:13] As we develop our geothermal to replace thermal baseload, we can do 90% renewable even in most dry years [20:13] Soundn't we just what adopt what Australia has gone for or a modest view of what they have? [20:13] anyone getting it on higher bandwidth? or is 128 the limit? 03[20:13] * kaya (Mibbit@mib-E4E244BF.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:13] 384 works [20:13] 128 the way to go [20:13] 128 seems to be the most stable [20:14] lacking vision Nick [20:14] jarbury and skytower, the german andscotts targets are net [20:14] Question: Why cant we lead the globe, similar to New Zealands Nuclear Free Movement, Womans right [20:14] caraka : Australia's electricity is 80% from coal [20:14] i prefered Nick's tie when it was Orange and Green :) 03[20:14] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:14] etc [20:14] womens vote 02[20:14] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:14] Australia 95% coal 03[20:14] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) has joined #mfe [20:14] lol. cop out 02[20:14] * lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:14] * Guest33960 (Mibbit@mib-608B91F9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:15] we can cut 40% by 2020 if we attack 3 things [20:15] If we get to $500 per tonne we may as well fold our tents and head to the St pole ill-equiped! [20:15] 1. fossil fuel (i.e. petrol, diesel) [20:15] 2. electricity (i.e. gas) 03[20:15] * lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:15] 3. Agriculture [20:16] Transport - electric rail [20:16] dude that has nothing to do with practical solutions [20:16] the greatest difficulty is from agriculture! [20:16] Bruno, yep, if we get rid of all of those, we almost reach the 40% target. [20:16] electric rail - YES [20:16] more motorways - NO 06[20:16] * cowbell ranting at n smith, there [20:16] commerce : we can offset agriculture with forests [20:16] Question: does he think Steven Joyce is a complete idiot? 02[20:16] * Guest18864 (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:16] If we export our aluminium factory, we will have ve3ry cheap electricity! [20:16] we get rid of Electricity emissions [20:16] 384 is working smoothly [20:16] only 60 users in chat - that's sad [20:16] we get rid of Transport emissions 02[20:16] * Tram_Trust_org_NZ (Mibbit@mib-DC5B7C23.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:16] sure you'll have to plant half of nz 03[20:16] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:16] * kimberly (Mibbit@29B0A09F.1F1A703F.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:16] Lots of jobs could be created fixing this... 03[20:16] * fred (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:16] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: paulyoung) [20:16] steel profits get moved offshore Nick! [20:16] we offset the Agriculture emissions with trees 03[20:16] * ghipoo (Mibbit@mib-608B91F9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:17] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:17] No the difficulty is not with agriculture, its with ruminents - not horticulture, not cropping, not chickens, not pigs [20:17] there are currently less than 2 million ha of forests in NZ [20:17] Lots of jobs in fixing, plants, etc [20:17] Question: Are we willing to take "our fair share" of the consequences of runaway climate change while we consider our share of emissions, or shall we leave that to low-lying pacific island nations, starving africans and polar bears for as long as we can? [20:17] there are millions more of land available to plant into forests [20:17] Question: What's the point of punishing emmitters when things will just be produced overseas less efficiently? [20:17] IT wasn't that easy to sign up if you haven't used this type of communication before! 03[20:17] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:17] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:17] more forests! totally [20:17] do your calcs how many hectares of trees at same rate of ag emissions [20:17] Another area we led, more relevant, removing subsidies for farmers [20:17] aten : agriculture = I meant cows burbs [20:17] Question: why do people keep going on about Polar Bears when their numbers are increasing? [20:18] Question - how are we going to get the developing countries on board and commit to binding limits 03[20:18] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:18] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:18] Our clean green brand is more believed in here than it is elsewhere on the planet! [20:18] haha yeah [20:18] NZ total emission in 1990 was about 60 million tons [20:18] Question: have they calculated the economic benefits of being a "world leader"? [20:19] NZ Forestry sink in 1990 was about 20 million tons [20:19] clean and green - what about some of our waterways. isn't that mostly a tourism pitch? [20:19] Question - will New Zealand face trade embargoes from our trading partners if it doesn't take on 25-40% reduction target? [20:19] Question - Is Nick aiming for 0 not -40? [20:19] Rainman, that is not true in my opinion, everywhere i ever went people talked about NZ as being clean, green, unpolluted, beautiful.. [20:19] NZ forests in 1990 was 1.2 million ha 03[20:19] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:19] no-one talks brand at negotiating table, but think about food exports and tourism [20:19] If all farms planted 12% of their land in Radiata it would compensate for all their livestock emissions. I have done the figures. [20:19] 1.2 million ha absorbed 20 million tons in 1990 [20:19] how much extra land would need to be planted in forest to offset 40% of our emissions? [20:19] All the debate is about emitters, the value expropriation from pre-1990 forested land owners is nearly $40 billion , 43% of it from Maori owned land. This is the least understood inequity of the Kyoto Protocol for NZ. [20:19] we have a lot of marginal land around the country [20:20] We are very scenic. That's different to actually being green. [20:20] Question: What would it take for you Hon Nick Smith to committ to 40% of 1990 levels by 2020 in Copenhagen this year? [20:20] see the Ministry for the Environment's Climate Change website for New Zealand's greenhouse gas emission reports http://www.climatechange.govt.nz/carbon-reports/index.html [20:20] euis, presumably you'd be ok with a 6-10% decrease in GDP then? [20:20] in 2007, NZ emission is about 78 million tons... 02[20:20] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:20] * alexrae (Mibbit@mib-D51545A1.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:20] * MatD (Mibbit@C945CB33.6896147A.7955F4B7.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:20] * folk (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:20] if we had 4 times the number of forests than we had in 1990, we could neutralize the emissions [20:20] yes indeed scenic, as we are clearly not attempting to be 'green' enough 03[20:20] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:21] * kaya (Mibbit@mib-E4E244BF.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:21] * Big_Dave (chatzilla@mib-912A80F7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]) 03[20:21] * Big (Mibbit@mib-912A80F7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:21] current planting is 2000 ha [20:21] some trees absorb more CO2 than radiata pine or douglas fir [20:21] Question: the clean green image is especially important for tourism and food exports, consumers do think before they buy either, what will replace these industries if there is a rapid change in the world? [20:21] I think it needs to be understood thet -40% is 40% less than 1990 emissions. This is impossbile for if we do not want to become a 4th world economy - we would be lower than 3rd world! 02[20:21] * alexrae (Mibbit@mib-D51545A1.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:22] in 1990 was 40,000 ha? [20:22] commerce : planting used to be as high as 98,000 ha per year [20:22] this was in the 1990s 02[20:22] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:22] was [20:22] not anymore [20:22] yes gelnorch, 40% less than 1990 = ~60% less than current 03[20:22] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:22] * neilyoumg (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:22] * Alex_christchurch (Mibbit@mib-D51545A1.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:22] glenorchy : it is possible to reduce by 40%...plant more trees [20:23] Pinus radiata sequesters around 27tonnes of CO2 per year, twice that of douglas fir! [20:23] glenorchy: plant trees, absorb CO2, create jobs [20:23] Question: how many sustainable jobs in forestry could be created by replanting native forests to offset 40% of emissions? [20:23] Why do we now not plant forests - do 'we' not own them? [20:23] clean green image includes all sectors, planting trees is only part of the solution 02[20:23] * neilyoumg (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:23] To the Panel: Tim Groser came out today saying no relevant, binding result will come out of Copenhagen because of slow negotiation progress, what will this mean for the current debate? [20:23] glenorchy: if 27 tonnes per year per ha, then, 1 mil ha is 27 million ton absorbed [20:23] Question: Are the financial costs to NZ's agriculture of avoiding climate change, i.e., 40% by 2020, bigger or smaller than the financial costs to NZ agriculture of runaway climate change? [20:24] Bruno, planting trees reduces farmland, reduces income for farms, reduces number of jobs. government spending to plant trees means more taxes means less discretionary spending means less money for shops means less jobs. [20:24] #help [20:24] if Copehagen fails to deliver a workable global agreement,then democracy and capitalism have failed humanity, and will need replacing [20:24] haha [20:24] billy : would we rather spend money overseas to buy carbon certificates, or would we rather spend money on planting trees in NZ ? [20:24] wrong petermcc. planting would be good for business, the current account deficit and for stimulus jobs in the recession 02[20:24] * Big (Mibbit@mib-912A80F7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:24] Question: Can each panellist briefly state what emission target they would like to see? 03[20:25] * Big_Dave (Mibbit@mib-912A80F7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:25] caraka, 'stimulus' just means the government is spending the money, not the people [20:25] Question - will the negotiations really conclude in Copenhagen or will we end up like last time that the rules came after the agreement? How does that sit with the NZ negotiation stance of rules before commitments? [20:25] peteremcc : plant trees on non-farmland...there are millions of ha of scrubland around 02[20:25] * Big_Dave (Mibbit@mib-912A80F7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:25] marsden B [20:25] lower unemployment means more taxes and less dole by the govt [20:25] its not new extra spending, its just being spent by a different person [20:25] Minister, you're not making sense. [20:25] caraka, not if people are being paid by the government [20:25] matty, what about marsden B [20:25] sadly, it might be cheaper for the economy to buy the difference in credits we'll need [20:26] petermcc: if government doesn't use money to plant trees, they will send the money overseas to buy carbon credits [20:26] It's not the japanese imports! The new cars, mostly from Oz, are the reason our transport is getting worse [20:26] Removed Thermal ban, removed core government agency carbon neutral program, removed Gov3 program, stopped funding for CPP program.... [20:26] Bruno, only if they choose to. 03[20:26] * Mat (Mibbit@C945CB33.6896147A.7955F4B7.IP) has joined #mfe [20:26] they'll have to buy the land too! not only plant the trees, if you don't have farmers planting trees 03[20:26] * BMR789 (Mibbit@mib-92A4EA9D.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:26] Question: Will the government commit to bringing in one or more Better Place networks if a study shows it would be effective? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place [20:26] commerce: it may look cheaper to buy credits overseas, but $ sent overseas is gone [20:26] Question: if National wants to reverse the trend and reduce emissions since 1990 why would it build more roads? Duh! [20:26] Bruno, no, money sent overseas affects our trade balance and our exchange rate 02[20:27] * DC (Mibbit@mib-BFE6B71B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:27] * Wheelz (Mibbit@mib-3CACE314.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:27] High population growth but still a big low densed country... Plenty of space to grow tree. No need for much road investment as most people live in cities! 02[20:27] * Wheelz (Mibbit@mib-3CACE314.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:27] peteremcc : yes it does affect our trade balance...it affects negatively 03[20:27] * MG (Mibbit@mib-DC5B7C23.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:27] which affects our exchange rate, and encourages more money into the country [20:27] it all balances out [20:27] There is no future in car based societies [20:28] With trees, you need to remember that in many parts of NZ the harvesting and transport costs exceed there export FOB value therefore forestry per se is uneconomic. A forest that is not harvested will eventually fall down (50/60 years) therefore triggering an emissions liability. [20:28] Australian and international companies are also very interested in the policy implications [20:28] peteremcc: it does not balance out...$1 spend in NZ could have multiplying effect on NZ economy [20:28] BMR789 correction: no future in petroleum based societies [20:28] glenorchy: plant hardwood, and don't harvest...absorb CO2 [20:28] I think we'll have cars forever, and I'm a greenie. Cars, like movies and radio, are here to stay [20:28] just as any money brought into new zealand will have the same 03[20:28] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:28] Electric Cars Puhghlease - won't fly [20:29] and the land that is available for comercial forestry has bad acces [20:29] and sending more money overseas affects the exchange rate, which encourages more money into the country [20:29] peteremcc : NZ dollar has lost a lot of value in the past 12 months, but there isn't much more money flowing back in [20:29] jeez, why aren'y you driving that dialogue? [20:29] won't scale - requirement for copper will toast electric car wishlist [20:29] trees only absorb until maturity not forever 02[20:29] * Zack (Mibbit@mib-A08BD3ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:29] peteremcc : from 85c (to USD), to 65c now... 02[20:29] * neilyoung (Mibbit@mib-8B5328FC.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:29] Bruno, that's because the interest rate has changed too [20:30] commerce: some trees can keep absorbing for a long time...60-80 years [20:30] Question: Why so much focus on electric cars? Electric Buses? Electric Goods vehicles? Why are they ignored? [20:30] Bruno, that's fine but who can afford that? Even hardwoods will fall over eventually. A public good project on crown land, yes, but on private land it doesn't work economically. 03[20:30] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mfe 02[20:30] * Guest46467 (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:30] Cars are still necessary for long distance but in cities e.g. in Christchurch, most of the commuting could be by public transport. I think that in Copenhagen, more than 30% of the active population commutes on bikes! Tax cars, make it expensive to commute by car and with the money develop an efficient public transport system [20:30] Bikes - your future transport option. [20:30] glenorchy: agree that trees fall eventually, but trees buys us time [20:30] Question: Based on the advice and information you have to date, what is a realistic targt you could commit to right away, if you had the appropriate legislative changes to back it? 02[20:30] * rickastley (Mibbit@mib-9B0B76A1.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:30] Problem is not intrinsically cars (and I'm a greenie too), it's the number of km travelled as well. We need to relocalise. [20:31] glenorchy: the next 4 decades are critical to avoid climate change.. [20:31] good question matty [20:31] How about, in order to drive a car in NZ you have to plant one tree for every 500km you drive annually... :) 03[20:31] * Mait (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:31] Question: When are they going to take questions from the cyber-floor? [20:31] that's when they mature, you can only plant those in some places. Getting land for permanent forests will be a challenge. How are you going to convince farmers or forestry people? [20:31] glenorchy: trees can keep CO2 in the ground for another 50 years...buys us time to find technology to sort out methane [20:31] Alex_christchurch, it's called petrol tax [20:31] caraja they have [20:32] , but make people plant trees as well. :D 03[20:32] * toe (Mibbit@mib-7BE89AB6.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:32] commerce : the convincing is in the ETS...getting paid money for carbon credits [20:32] Buying time puts the "liability" onto future generations and being involved with Maori land, that is an absolute no, no! Future generations need to be able to determined what is best for their time and place. [20:32] yes we need to plant trees, but get all sectors in the ETS. planting forests only is not the solution [20:32] playing our part - China opens a coal fired power station ever 4 days. Renewables not going to cover for that. 02[20:32] * toe (Mibbit@mib-7BE89AB6.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:33] * hotproperty (Mibbit@mib-7E92237D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:33] China's day of reconing will come. We still emit 3.5 times as much per person than the Chinese, despite thier coal binge [20:33] China is also investing more than anyone in renewable energy [20:33] glenorchy : I agree about liability, that's why we don't just keep on emitting while we sink CO2...we gotta fix the Transport and Electricity emissions [20:33] China on the up - OECD on the down 02[20:34] * Mait (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:34] Yeah I'm 17, i dont want have to clean up everyone else's mess in 30 years. 02[20:34] * hotproperty (Mibbit@mib-7E92237D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:34] * brwn (Mibbit@753A331E.FEC22053.B11FEB4A.IP) has joined #mfe [20:34] We don't need to cover for China. We need to only worry about ourselves and play our part 02[20:34] * Cantabrian (Mibbit@FA155DAC.3A53688F.14791421.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:34] Taxing food. That is dumb [20:34] Question: Has the minister consider the implications of this descision, that if we don't set it higher enough we won't have a world so diverse for our kids, and perhaps your grandchildren? [20:34] you dont "have"to eat meat to survive [20:34] By doing our part, we set an example for the world. That is powerful. [20:34] exactly...we don't have to worry about others...we do our fair share [20:34] Quesstion: Is the Minister aware of what the cost abatement curve is for ruminant animal methane taking into account the potential for conversion from dairy to forestry? [20:34] We do need to worry about China and their emissions. Them and the other BRIC countries [20:34] billy : agree with you...it is POWERFUL [20:34] they are on the rise energy wise. we are on the decline. [20:34] Who is taxing food? We're talking about carbon emissions bee [20:34] Im vegan, you do not need to eat any animal products to survice :) 03[20:35] * kevin (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:35] caraka, is that an approach that means we just try to meet obligations? [20:35] China will be more likely to find other plans if there is a united front from the developed world. [20:35] We are not taking our share of the consequences yet... 03[20:35] * choose_two (Mibbit@mib-7BE89AB6.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:35] * choose_two (Mibbit@mib-7BE89AB6.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz) Quit (Quit: choose_two) 02[20:35] * brwn (Mibbit@753A331E.FEC22053.B11FEB4A.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:35] * ahh (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe [20:35] caraka, producing food causes emmissions, an ETS is basically a tax on food. [20:35] China will do whatever is proven to make them the most money [20:35] caraka, the environment ministry rep was asked about it [20:35] United front from the developed world - yes it is called nukes. [20:35] If you want to learn about efficient farming technologies, you can look into Permaculture. There are some wonderful principles that can be adopted and rolled out in NZ agriculture from the Permaculture Institute of NZ 03[20:35] * joe123 (Mibbit@mib-233BC07E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:35] If other people have to prove the way, so be it 03[20:35] * alex (Mibbit@mib-86656A8B.king.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:35] BMR789 - exactly. We are likely to transfer our "dirty" manufacturing to China and pat ourselves on the back saying, "aren't we clever". We need to change our behaviour in terms of our throw away thinking. It has to stop otherwise we will make no progress in emissions reductions. [20:35] bee we should meet the obligations the science sets for us. As it stands, the chinese are still below the mark per capita [20:35] www.ooooby.com [20:35] If they tax food, at least maybe we won't be one of the fattest countries in the world anymore. Aren't we third? 02[20:36] * fred (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:36] * kevin is now known as Guest58284 [20:36] BMR789 : lol 03[20:36] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@mib-AE5B44D1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:36] * nonamenoway (Mibbit@mib-AE5B44D1.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: nonamenoway) [20:36] glenorchy agree totally - 02[20:36] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:36] video stopped on mine [20:36] To the Panel: The difference is blurred between what NZ can "achieve" vs. what we agree to as a "target", for which we pay a penalty if not reached. Do we have figures of what we can realistically achieve, or is the costing to NZ only based on what we pay if we continue as usual? [20:36] same 03[20:36] * bungle (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 03[20:36] * alex is now known as Guest56340 [20:37] China is not interested in what the OECD has done. Only interested in their own internal dynamics 03[20:37] * nzmarkc (Mibbit@mib-1EAE2E58.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:37] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:37] Question: How are we going to reduce emissions from the transport sector when current transport policy is all about building more state highwys and not about investing in more sustainable transport options? [20:37] Question: given that you've ignored most of our questions, are you surprised they dried up? 02[20:37] * Snodgrass (Mibbit@mib-A5A1100C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:37] China only craves stability, and at any cost [20:37] Question: When are you going to answer all the questions or do you plan to just skim through the easy ones? [20:37] hey...when are they gonna answer the questions from the cyber-floor ??? [20:37] Question: Why do the minister's figures show enrgy by sector but agricuture by gasses? Isn't this misleading? 03[20:37] * mmmhmmm (Mibbit@mib-14A8C8D8.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:38] Is the video still dead for folks? [20:38] This is a talkfest by people that only have answers from a failed paradigm. 03[20:38] * Ted (Mibbit@mib-8BB7AA5D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:38] going for me [20:38] I've got audio only [20:38] video is running now. [20:38] What about harmonisation with the Australian CPRS? There are ramifications for NZ economy [20:38] BMR, sadly, you may be right there. 02[20:38] * joe123 (Mibbit@mib-233BC07E.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:38] 100 million chinese die through internal instability every century. [20:38] seems to freeze sometimes [20:38] But something must be wrong, they are not answering our questions...must be a technical problem [20:38] Question, Can you elaborate on that please [20:38] They are over due for a correction. [20:38] isnt energy only co2? 02[20:39] * ahh (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:39] Question: Can the Minister explain the rationale for continuing, if that indeed is going to happen of imposing such a huge cost (nearly $40 billion) for owners of pre-1990 forests, 43% of whom are Maori. [20:39] Question: has the input from the public in this consultation process changed the Minister's position so far? [20:39] PLEASE TALK ABOUT TRANSPORT! [20:39] BMR789 can you talk more about copper for electric cars? 03[20:39] * A1kmm (chatzilla@mib-BC02E2AE.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[20:39] * mmmhmmm (Mibbit@mib-14A8C8D8.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:39] You need it - world short of copper 02[20:39] * indah (Mibbit@mib-4C7E46B3.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:39] Colin James : stopping chatting, field our questions !! 02[20:39] * Guest56340 (Mibbit@mib-86656A8B.king.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:39] See BHP reports - you would have them if you knew mining industry [20:39] Question: What is the minister going to do to reduce our emmisions, irrelivant on to what the target is? [20:40] video and audio both fine 03[20:40] * nickoutwest (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe [20:40] Yes,we must eat but you do not need to drive a big SUV to commute 3kms [20:40] Question: Will you be able to live with your conscience if you don't commit to 40% by 2020? [20:40] Question: Are you going to put in place any framework or program to replace the core government carbon neutral program or the CPP program for councils?? [20:40] Owner in BHP, Copper is the industrial metal - and we are short. problem for urbanisation process underway in developing world [20:40] Have they made ANY comments about improving public transport? [20:40] ghipoo : no [20:41] unbelievable [20:41] they have completely IGNORED transport [20:41] no comments on public transport [20:41] Yes transport! 02[20:41] * nickoutwest (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:41] * jess321 (Mibbit@mib-2E624D27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:41] Not to speak of of other crucial metals needed for batteries - which of course the Chinese control 90% of the worlds resource [20:41] alex_ we are 17th fattest, apparently [20:41] Question: when do I have to stop driving my v8? [20:41] what does he think of Steven Joyce's 1960s transport policies? 03[20:41] * nick (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[20:41] * surfer (Mibbit@DA0CD3EF.A44711F7.4A598073.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:42] V8? - gas at $2.80 a litre perhaps - by 2012 02[20:42] * jess321 (Mibbit@mib-2E624D27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:42] the government policy statement for transport has taken hundreds of millions of dollars away from public transport, walking & cycling and so on, and just thrown it at building more state highways [20:42] 4How about incentives such as Britain's Bus Operators Grant to level the playing field for electric buses [20:42] how does that make sense? 02[20:42] * Kris (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:42] how about building Auckland's CBD rail tunnel instead of the Waterview Connection? [20:42] The story for the next 50 years is not the West/OECD - that was last centruy. [20:43] Question: what about big business? Why would you make individuals and small business solely responsible for solving this problem? 03[20:43] * jess321 (Mibbit@mib-2E624D27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:43] the story for the next 50 years is China and it's Urbanisation process that is underway. Game changer that we in the west just do not understand. PERIOD. 03[20:43] * rjmackay (Mibbit@212F17AF.F1C16270.F1C4CEAA.IP) has joined #mfe 03[20:43] * recyclette (Mibbit@mib-CB17FFE8.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 03[20:43] * mn (Mibbit@1CCEF0C9.4D0A0A96.92903188.IP) has joined #mfe [20:43] Massive impact on CO2 emissions 02[20:43] * rjmackay (Mibbit@212F17AF.F1C16270.F1C4CEAA.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:44] * commerce (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:44] Electric cars... you still have to produce electricity for them i.e. emit CO2!!! [20:44] Did Nick say "MFE are going to set a national standard for sea level rise."? [20:44] Question: Ignore the price, what does your conscience say? [20:44] A price on carbon - but with what distortions and exemptions? [20:44] rickshaw: yes 03[20:44] * alex (Mibbit@mib-86656A8B.king.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:45] if public transport usage is booming and traffic volumes falling, why is the government throwing billions at building more roads? 02[20:45] * nick (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:45] sharpblade err, what? many, many ways of producing electricity without emitting co2 02[20:45] * eco1 (Mibbit@mib-C218C89B.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:45] 4Thank you: Follow up question. RUCS waiver is only for vehicles below 3.5 tonnes. Why not for heavier Electric Vehicles? [20:45] You will be very happy to even be able to buy petrol in 10 years time. Will be too expensive and useful to burn in car engines however. 03[20:45] * nickwestak (Mibbit@48B1F5F9.78593212.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe [20:45] Question: how much implication, do you believe, your decision will have on the future generation [20:45] crikey is that ALL we're going to talk about when it comes to transport??? 03[20:45] * alex is now known as Guest32864 02[20:46] * Ted (Mibbit@mib-8BB7AA5D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:46] * bungle (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:46] BMR789 If you're saying that for in ten years, that's the collapse of the US's agricultural system, that's a global war right there [20:46] The United States is not one we should be holding up as a model to emmulate. [20:46] We're very different to Australia though. [20:46] MG: I second that [20:46] Wombleton - Correct [20:46] The reality is that if you had super-fast internet, there is no reason for people to live in the large metropolitan areas. They can work from home from wherever in NZ they choose to live. Technology can eliminate traffic jams. 03[20:46] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:46] yup...we are not Australians ! [20:46] For electric cars, you need electricity... Is NZ going to build nuclear plant as hydro energy will not be enough? 02[20:46] * mn (Mibbit@1CCEF0C9.4D0A0A96.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:46] * harmony (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [20:47] And associated emissions! [20:47] BMR789 I agree that's the way we're going, but my guess is 30 years [20:47] Never will be nuclear in NZ [20:47] so once again, why are we throwing billions of dollars at building more motorways? 02[20:47] * bee (Mibbit@mib-A19775CD.callplus.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:47] Question: How will the government ensure that the people who suffer the most from climate change through flooding of land are those who are benefit from emissions now. [20:47] sharpblade : not nuclear....wind electricity [20:47] glenorchy: how many NZ managers are OK with that, actually? [20:47] America is imploding now [20:47] Have you not noticed? [20:47] yeah, perhaps since our economies are different we shouldn't be in the CER common market? [20:47] no, tech cannot replace all labour. You speak as if we have an info economy, not a comodity one [20:47] sharpblade : there are lots of wind potential around [20:47] $10.7 billion to be spent on building more state highways in the next decade - is that crazy? [20:47] Question: how will similarity to the Australian CPRS be any better than being able to trade AAUs and CERs? [20:47] Question: Other than asking chief executives to make common sense decisions around their own emission targets and greener buying decisions, do you have any plans to implement a program or framework within which Government departments can work to achieve reductions? [20:47] Question: What is the goverment doing to reduce these emmisions now? [20:47] joshua_arbury: yes. [20:47] Wind is the equivalent of ICING on the Cake when it comes to power. [20:47] more worrying is the persistance in rolling out natural gas infrastructure when we only have 10 yr supply left and we think it will be still affordable !! time for a reality check [20:47] Not similarity but interoperability [20:47] Imploding, yes, but they still have enough muscle to not collapse in my opinion [20:47] Buckminster Fuller noted decades ago that it would soon be cheaper to pay people to stay home rather than suffer the damage and waste of commuting [20:48] And guess what - when it doesn;t blow - there is NO ELECTRICY 02[20:48] * kakapo (Mibbit@mib-4CD5022F.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:48] * Guest32864 (Mibbit@mib-86656A8B.king.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:48] * harmony (Mibbit@mib-EB12FEC5.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:48] America is in collapse right now. Debt fuelled collapse. No turning back now for them. [20:49] NO [20:49] So that's a no, then? [20:49] It's a NO [20:49] no [20:49] NO! [20:49] sounds like a "no" [20:49] Question: Red wine? White wine? Do you realise you are rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic? [20:49] Definitely a no [20:49] no [20:49] Mr Smith, please consult with Greenpeace and the Permaculture Institute of NZ [20:49] blah blah blah blah - Nic Smith = FAIL [20:49] Minister: now is not the time for ideology, it's time for bravery. [20:50] Fail [20:50] For christ sakes BMR789 when the winds not blowing we let go more of the water that we held back in our dams that we saved when it was blowing [20:50] Stuff the brand, I want my kids to have a decent life!!! [20:50] "We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children" [20:50] Wind is nothing compared to HYDRO base -NOTHING [20:50] I care about the future of our planet and our children, not so much about branding [20:50] rainman: bang on [20:50] tidal power :) [20:50] Question: 40% by 2020. Are you listening? [20:50] rainman: bang on! [20:50] You obviously do not understand the difference between base load power sources [20:51] no [20:51] Where's Noah we need that Ark!! [20:51] Sure, but children will be the ones paying for it, we can't keep passing on economic burdens without a realistic plan to cope [20:51] 40% by 2020. Real Action Now. 03[20:51] * rjmackay (Mibbit@212F17AF.F1C16270.F1C4CEAA.IP) has joined #mfe [20:51] Agree - Turquoise, matt and Rainman - life not branding. [20:51] Dont be a wimp [20:51] thanks all, nicely done [20:51] Question: what if we don't believe you're listening? [20:51] 4Transport - whether goods or passenger has been mostly neglected [20:51] 40% [20:51] by 2020 [20:52] in favour of reduction, need to sort out how to do it at the same time, a slogan wont get us there [20:52] Anyone happy with Nick Smith after that? [20:52] thank you for completely ignoring transport [20:52] We will know he has been listening if we get something like 44% by 2020. [20:52] 40% now! [20:52] Shame I came late to the party - oh well was fun [20:52] guess we can beat on nick smith by email... and be ignored again [20:52] WE WANT 40 by 2020 02[20:52] * paulyoung (Mibbit@mib-3E4CF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:52] * rich101 (Mibbit@mib-472EB8B2.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:52] * euis (Mibbit@mib-F0745B3C.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:52] I attended a Hui with the Minister last Tuesday and have to say his knowledge and understanding impressed me. He undertsands that there are huge inequities but they are probably insoluable. The day Kyoto was ratified certain things were inevitable without any real undertstanding of the full implications. 02[20:52] * jbfr (Mibbit@F4B452B6.19BE7A5F.B54A0CA3.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:52] The whole concept of baseload is old fashioned. Electircity will come from all over the place in future - the baseload will be from the most abundant renewable at the time 02[20:52] * Guest58284 (Mibbit@mib-60AE61B3.enternet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:52] * lk (Mibbit@mib-58B53F9F.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:52] * aten (Mibbit@mib-38D6F35E.dynamic.ubs.tasman.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:52] * nzmarkc (Mibbit@mib-1EAE2E58.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:53] Smith is no mug - just follows a party political paradigm that is largely clueless. 02[20:53] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-24B29D33.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:53] funeral music as people depart... 02[20:53] * rjmackay (Mibbit@212F17AF.F1C16270.F1C4CEAA.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:53] * jh (Mibbit@mib-D3C7D41A.dynamic.dsl.kinect.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:53] * jess321 (Mibbit@mib-2E624D27.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:53] 4lol [20:53] Keep sending the submissions n.smith@ministers.govt.nz or Hon Dr Nick Smith, Minister for Climate Change Issues, PO Box 10362, Wellington 6143 [20:53] 4asphyxiated [20:53] aten if you don't have a large base of batteries (like uniquitous electric cars) renewables have a problem [20:53] Problem of democracies of course. Every one can vote. ;-) 02[20:53] * ANZSustain (Mibbit@mib-B91CF9B1.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[20:53] * laurie (Mibbit@mib-FFDF0762.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:53] 4by the cars that will emit on these costly roads [20:53] thanks for puttting this on, shame we are still yet to get a clear goal from the minister. [20:53] Thanks for the consultation, hope to see more in this format. [20:53] well well well aye. I suppose wen we run out of oil it will all sort itself out anyway 02[20:53] * SimoTourism (Mibbit@mib-A0D8D7DA.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:54] * Guest2009 (Mibbit@mib-FC93438.dynamic.hinet.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:54] here ends tonights installment of "politics in the future" 02[20:54] * MG (Mibbit@mib-DC5B7C23.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:54] Yes, with an invasion. [20:54] matty, yup. that's what we call a market. [20:54] Will there be another online panel discussion on 2020 targets? [20:54] Yup, thanks from me too. [20:54] never thought I'd welcome peak oil! [20:54] Q: how did you guys find out about this presentation? [20:54] found out via Twitter [20:54] A nzfrank: @NZGreens on twitter! [20:54] nzfrank: Hot Topic 03[20:54] * commerce (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe [20:54] matty: unfortunately, there are plenty of very dirty alternatives to oil [20:54] Q: would you like to see more discussions in this format? [20:54] NZGreens on twitter [20:54] @nzgreens [20:54] Frogblog [20:54] yes [20:54] I guess this kind of consultation wouldn't be easy in Iran :-) 02[20:54] * recyclette (Mibbit@mib-CB17FFE8.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:54] Post on frogblog [20:54] nzfrank Sure thing [20:55] I'm @BMR789 on twitter - follow me if you are into some serious macro themes [20:55] Also, www.transitiontowns.org.nz 02[20:55] * laurie (Mibbit@mib-FFDF0762.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:55] the flier handed out at the public consultation 02[20:55] * Alex_christchurch (Mibbit@mib-D51545A1.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:55] Yes, do it again, but listen to the chat channel and answer the questions! [20:55] Plan for a transition from oil and carbon producing resources [20:55] Pity so few were involved but it was start using this technology. I would certainly participate again. 02[20:55] * billy (Mibbit@mib-80EEB515.broadband.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:55] and promote it earlier [20:55] caraka there were some questions ported over [20:55] But, yeah 02[20:55] * lyhaha (Mibbit@623AE38B.EBD04E91.92903188.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:55] baseload is not old fashioned [20:55] too few wombleton! [20:56] 'Tis probably pretty hard to mc an event and follow a chat stream, to be fair. But answering some hard questions would have been good. [20:56] more on transport matters: http://www.transportblog.co.nz 02[20:56] * rickshaw (Mibbit@mib-C0F46649.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:56] you want electic cars and heat pumps - plus run EVERYTHING the way you want it now, plus industry - you need BASELOAD. FACT 02[20:56] * commerce (Mibbit@mib-B007D2A4.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[20:56] * Matt1 (Mibbit@mib-354F86B.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:57] Are there going to be anymore of these events? [20:57] nzfrank - tell me your email and i'll tell you how the Greens got so many people here. and how to repeat it. 02[20:57] * peteremcc (Mibbit@mib-4721FCBC.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:57] Technology was quite cool and worked fine for me [20:57] So I tried to screencap that and I got a rubbish chopped up copy [20:57] BMR789: I think you're right but we have a lot of hydro. And who needs a heat pump? [20:57] is it worth youtubing it or will there be an official copy? 03[20:58] * peterkelly (peter@mib-79CACABE.netlink.net.nz) has joined #mfe [20:58] heat pumps will be the end of NZ. total waste for most users. (not all) [20:58] Heat pump - not me !!LOL - But they are touted as the best thing since sliced bread!!! [20:58] To be fair, I don't live in the frozen south... [20:58] What's your twitter nzfrank? [20:58] Minister Smith: For another solution - a way to transition from oil & resource dependency, check out www.transitiontowns.org.nz there are lots of solutions there [20:58] Most of the North Island would probably be better off with better insulation. [20:58] Heat pump use taking out teh dips in our summer months 02[20:59] * maralene (Mibbit@mib-DADBA293.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [20:59] Minister: what turquoise said. Night all. [20:59] everyone using it as an AIRCON device to reduce the temp by a couple of degrees, implications on lake storage. [20:59] Goodnight, and thanks for listening Minister. I hope we can help :) [20:59] Alkmm, and a home spun jersey? Just Joking! 02[21:00] * Bruno (Mibbit@mib-4401374F.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:00] * peterkelly (peter@mib-79CACABE.netlink.net.nz) Quit (Quit: too late....) 02[21:00] * turquoise (Mibbit@mib-A80D3AAB.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:00] good night everybody :-) don't forget to turn the lights out and shut the door [21:00] now the music meant to drive us out! 02[21:00] * matty (Mibbit@mib-91441CF3.dialup.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:00] BMR789: I'm sure that helps too :P 02[21:00] * ghipoo (Mibbit@mib-608B91F9.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:00] just look at them leaving! [21:01] mad rush for the door [21:01] caraka: I closed the stream pretty fast. [21:01] yeah. Is this music Lorenzo Buhne? [21:01] yeah the music is doing my head in - I'm gone. Catch me on twitter for a an alternative macro theme view point @BMR789 02[21:02] * BMR789 (Mibbit@mib-92A4EA9D.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:02] * lucky13 (Mibbit@mib-E6599D1B.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:02] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-7509A7ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[21:02] * rainman (Mibbit@mib-1C12AD78.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:03] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-7509A7ED.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:04] * wombleton (Mibbit@mib-A364489C.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:05] who is the music by? 02[21:05] * dave_ven30 (Mibbit@mib-5F69CB53.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:06] * chrismoore (Mibbit@FD5DB384.25463FBC.E104E1C0.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:08] btw - this webcast worked fine for linux. I was worried I'd be left out1 03[21:10] * Skye (Mibbit@1030F9FE.4FF1EC5C.F011B6E4.IP) has joined #mfe [21:10] disappointing that so little was said about transport 03[21:10] * aaron_kirk (Mibbit@mib-754978D8.ue.woosh.co.nz) has joined #mfe [21:10] Hey everyone 02[21:10] * Skye (Mibbit@1030F9FE.4FF1EC5C.F011B6E4.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:11] * melly_nelly (Mibbit@mib-4CF028E3.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:11] Hey aaron! [21:11] email info@r2.co.nz for music title [21:12] yes music my Lorenzo [21:12] is the discussion still happening [21:13] no [21:13] the chat crashed how many times [21:13] gees 02[21:13] * glenorchy (Mibbit@6F400475.CA71BEB4.4A598073.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:14] * aaron_kirk (Mibbit@mib-754978D8.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:14] That's what i thought. I only have his latest album, nothing earlier. 03[21:15] * Rick (Mibbit@mib-CADB0339.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[21:15] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:15] * Matt (Mibbit@mib-C9088A9D.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe 02[21:16] * Rick (Mibbit@mib-CADB0339.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:16] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) has joined #mfe [21:16] matte 03[21:16] * Matt is now known as Guest22836 02[21:17] * nzfrank (Mibbit@23333C80.4663CB6.D8D84786.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:17] * Guest22836 (Mibbit@mib-C9088A9D.cable.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:20] * chris (Mibbit@mib-979BCEE7.dsl.telstraclear.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:21] * phraed (Mibbit@mib-AB78105D.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:22] Good hussle guys [21:22] hussel* [21:23] good night everyone 02[21:23] * r2-11 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:25] * joshua_arbury (Mibbit@mib-CDF20AB4.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:25] * Mat (Mibbit@C945CB33.6896147A.7955F4B7.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:27] * chrise (Mibbit@909B8.3B4952DD.D96366C2.IP) has joined #mfe 02[21:27] * chrise (Mibbit@909B8.3B4952DD.D96366C2.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [21:29] chow lorenzo! 03[21:29] * jmsinnz2 (Mibbit@F10483FB.78593212.C6B23885.IP) has joined #mfe 02[21:29] * caraka (Mibbit@mib-4BCC4843.ue.woosh.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:30] * cowbell (rimu@mib-FAB36F7E.cable.telstraclear.net) has left #mfe 03[21:30] * chrise (Mibbit@mib-5D30C5BC.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[21:31] * chrise (Mibbit@mib-5D30C5BC.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:32] * jmsinnz2 (Mibbit@F10483FB.78593212.C6B23885.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:34] * dr_squeaky (ryan@mib-A9038BD.cable.telstraclear.net) has joined #mfe [21:34] Damn, I missed it. 03[21:35] * dr_squeaky (ryan@mib-A9038BD.cable.telstraclear.net) has left #mfe 03[21:40] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-7D5568EF.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) has joined #mfe 02[21:40] * choose_one (Mibbit@mib-7D5568EF.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 02[21:41] * lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 03[21:42] * lily (Mibbit@mib-B390CD57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mfe 02[21:46] * r2-04 (Mibbit@ECF6C7DA.9F7C15FC.365BE413.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) Session Close: Mon Jul 20 21:46:13 2009